Quinn Slobodian on Muskism and the AfD

00:00:06: A guy named Peter Beringer, who was an AFD delegate from Munich.

00:00:10: And Beringers started spreading this theory that the Americans had stolen Germany's gold.

00:00:16: The Americans had melted it down they had misplaced it They had expropriated themselves and That we want to see the gold like show us the gold?

00:00:27: This is funny until the Bundesbank says okay.

00:00:31: So that's the crazy part.

00:00:32: is The Bundesbank was like, you're right.

00:00:33: You've got a point and they bring back A big chunk of the German gold reserves And have a public exhibition Of the Gold in Frankfurt where you can come into be Like okay good it here.

00:00:46: But then of course this Is why.

00:00:49: This is Why It' s an even better illustration Of this logic.

00:00:52: is Bringer goes and he'S like That's not real gold.

00:01:15: Welcome to the Heist podcast.

00:01:17: I'm Benjamin Stoller.

00:01:18: This week, we have the audio of a live event that we had back in May with author Quinn Slobodian.

00:01:23: In conversation with our heist founding editor Peter Matthews.

00:01:26: there are about fifty or sixty of us Back then at chapters bookshop in Moabit where incidentally I also record these podcasts and it was The first Heist Event which We actually sold out right away.

00:01:36: It Was super cool to get To meet some Of you Some heist readers And Some followers and connect and We're hoping to be able to do more That kind of thing as the year goes on.

00:01:46: so stay tuned for send us some ideas if you have some cool locations to do events or cool ideas.

00:01:51: Anyway, to introduce Quinn Slabodian he's the author of a few books but specifically he and Peter discussed two of them High Ex Bastards from last year A book that made a big splash because it traces the intellectual history of The Far Right in some surprising ways.

00:02:06: And also his newest book Muskism co-authored with Ben Tarnoff which came out just a few months ago this year.

00:02:13: And that one looks at Musk and his industrial strategies, the wider implications of his successes like it looks at kind of fortism on ketamine in mushrooms which is something we should keep in mind because he became world's first trillionaire after the IPO of his company SpaceX just weeks ago.

00:02:32: Berlin specific.

00:02:33: in second half of episode, Slobodian talks about AFD.

00:02:38: So the whole episode connects muskism and AFD in trying to get to the bottom of the question, why is this particular version of madness rewarded?

00:02:48: Before we play the audio of this event, I want to say thanks again for those who have signed up for Heist or shared the podcast around in these last couple weeks.

00:02:57: We've seen some really great sign-up and download numbers so please help us keep that up by signing it free to Heist!

00:03:06: Or if you can extend our Cash Runway and survive even longer?

00:03:11: By becoming an accomplice which is starting at nine euros monthly on heisberlin.com.

00:03:17: So, bear with us.

00:03:18: This episode is a bit longer than the usual ones but I think it's worth to hear how Quinn Slabodian connects The Dots and yeah...it'a live event.

00:03:25: so that audio sounds like its a live event.

00:03:27: But okay!

00:03:27: That enough let get going.

00:03:29: Here's Peter Matthews & Quinn Slabbodian.

00:03:32: Thanks very much.

00:03:38: Okay thanks for coming Alright..so Yeah i wanted start some questions about muskism then go to Hayek's bastards in that order, kind of.

00:03:48: But yeah... So what I like about muskism is it's this attempt to understand Elon Musk not so much as a person but as a system or emblematic of the time in some way.

00:03:59: Yeah can you describe that?

00:04:01: What is the way that capital is relating to the world under musk-ism?

00:04:06: Sure!

00:04:06: First of all thank everybody for coming through The Dregs Of The Rain.

00:04:11: It was very nice being here.

00:04:13: Berlin is a place that's very close to me.

00:04:15: It sort of second home for me and A lot of the work I've done has been written here.

00:04:20: in fact, The Second half especially this cyborg Half of muskism which i'm sure we'll end up talking about was mostly Written In a blessed two-week period That I Was living on my baroofer last summer Without my nine-year old child who I love very dearly but, Who i had more or less been chained to since his birth Nine years ago.

00:04:41: and this was the first two week period.

00:04:42: I Had To write And it happened really happens like there Was a lot pent up?

00:04:47: And I was able to get into musk's Mental zone and then mercifully departed having left The trace of the chapters that are in the second half Of the book behind.

00:04:57: But the approach That me and My co-author Ben turn off took.

00:05:01: And so first of all, this is a co-authored book we read.

00:05:04: it wrote at fifty percent.

00:05:05: fifty percent It was not just me Was first to kind of do this thought experiment which was you know?

00:05:12: What if we were youngish middle aged approaching Socialists?

00:05:19: intellectuals would be intellectual in the nineteen twenties and thirties looking at Henry Ford.

00:05:27: what Would our relationship to the figure of Henry Ford B, right?

00:05:31: Would we look at him and just say this guy is a monster.

00:05:36: And he disgusts me and I don't want to think about Henry Ford so i'm gonna focus on other things.

00:05:42: or would we do what someone like Antonio Gromshee did sitting in prison and saying wait for it is not just forward four does something larger than himself and what Ford is doing in his factory, it's not actually the most important story.

00:05:57: What's happening at this factory as its creating an engine of accumulation that then reshapes to social world outside a factor changes everything from family sexuality gender relations between nations relationship minerals on earth consumer markets that emerge afterwards.

00:06:18: so What Gramsci did, and what we then somewhat I guess Vaingloriously did in the path of Gramscy was to say well... ...what if you thought about Musk like that too?

00:06:29: We hated Musk as much as The Next Person.

00:06:31: Maybe even more!

00:06:32: You know..I quite literally did mute him on X and Twitter when i was still on that platform for years.

00:06:38: I just was like whew free of him.

00:06:41: But then at some point, like in a specific point and early twenty-twenty five when he was running them up through the US government it Was just.

00:06:48: that's not adequate.

00:06:50: That is not sufficient.

00:06:50: Like this man needs to be looked into face And we will look him in the faces by looking his face By looking at implications of the suite of products & services In all they span His relationship with the government The origin of ideas, different waves of investment cycles State needs and consumer needs that have made him this unprecedentedly wealthy person And someone who is has this load-bearing status now.

00:07:18: He's a pillar of the global political economy in A way, that needs to be confronted.

00:07:25: So you know I mean?

00:07:26: That was the approach Was to begin To see Him not In his own words at all right like.

00:07:33: actually The Economist just gave a very Like nicely flattering, especially because the economists review of our book where they said this is the inverse of The Walter Isaacson biography.

00:07:45: Even though he had no access to Musk.

00:07:47: They're not interested in what's a must-had but they said that for that it's actually more revealing about the influence of musk and the power That He wields Because It De-psychologizes And Deep Pathologize Us In A Way By Just Saying He'S Actually Not a aberration, he's actually like the leading indicator or the indicator species of the version of capitalism we've all collectively built.

00:08:16: With that in mind I mean one thing you say is important not to think musk as this kind individual but people had those stickers they put on their Teslas before Elon went crazy.

00:08:32: But so do you think that tracing his story, You can see a moment of change in him?

00:08:38: And then how did he read that trajectory when your trying not to psychologize.

00:08:45: Yeah I mean we started writing the book because it was like the high point of Doge and so on.

00:08:49: this is first question.

00:08:51: people would ask us what happened to Elon When things go sideways for Musk trying to say, well we're not exactly just trying to figure out Elon.

00:09:05: We were nevertheless kind of bound by our method and our method is use his biography to kinda walk a reader through like the different phases in recent past.

00:09:16: so he becomes quite helpful pedagogical tool because you can introduce people too moments that maybe they had forgotten about or never known.

00:09:27: The way that the global war on terror produced a new market for certain kind of technology, the way that Obama's moment of green industrial policy produced to market for some type of technology.

00:09:39: The move into things like more outre-things like AI and brain computer interfaces produce new demands And Musk was there but he wasn't one in most cases.

00:09:51: who is primary actor coasting behind other people who had opened up new sectors, or else just having his antenna out and being like what is necessary right now?

00:10:02: Like what is getting money basically mostly from the government that will grease the wheels, grease the rails for me to enter this.

00:10:12: And gather more money as I go.

00:10:15: So if you think about it that way then your kind of forced ask answer The question of when did must-go crazy a little differently.

00:10:23: The question is less, you know what happened in his personal life.

00:10:27: then What happens structurally that made the expression of craziness as we recognize it?

00:10:34: Nevertheless highly lucrative for musk right because I think That's probably the most important thing to bear in mind.

00:10:40: Is that his personal net worth has borne no injury from the appearance have going crazy?

00:10:48: In fact this opposite that the things that liberals or even many of us in this room would describe as derangement have been rewarded, you know, serially by the most sober-minded members of the global investor class.

00:11:05: So our subjective understanding what craziness is must be at least in kind of the judgment of market exactly incorrect right?

00:11:16: Like somehow we have the wrong measure of madness.

00:11:21: We don't know what crazy means when it comes to, function of the market is like this space of veridiction as Foucault called it-the place where truth has actually decided.

00:11:32: doesn't matter who you think it is that market tells the truth and for all of the challenges that neoliberalism had in recent years That's one thing seems to remain a helpful way try to figure out whats going on.

00:11:47: The way we approach the question is a couple ways.

00:11:50: One, to backtrack it.

00:11:52: so lot of things that get read as Musk's craziness are to do with his increasing fusion with online network technologies.

00:12:03: So often people will say its combination like doing too much ketamine and posting.

00:12:09: We're in Berlin, I'm sure a lot of people have suffered these very same maladies.

00:12:13: Like this is... This is a very relatable part actually the mosque biography but you know when.

00:12:21: so what was he doing?

00:12:21: Was that him going off the deep end?

00:12:23: Was she getting addicted to social media slash addicted to drugs?

00:12:27: at some point we had a great moment.

00:12:29: i was talking about this um to peter and ben.

00:12:32: in the back We talked to this artist that maybe some people in this room know, Bahar Narazadeh who used to live in Berlin.

00:12:39: She's doing a great project called Weird Economies and she did really interesting video call Teslaism And at some point involved like the crossover.

00:12:50: apparently there may be night club underneath the Gigafactory.

00:12:53: This is one of the urban myths But we do know that Sven denied entrance for Mosque to Burkhan.

00:13:05: Oh, well but there was... Ben, my co-author was at the time reading The Biography of Trotsky.

00:13:11: And there were some description that Ezek Dojcer uses about how history is knocking on the door and Trotski opened it or something like that... We thought this as a reverse!

00:13:25: History was at their door but Sven said no.

00:13:29: Then unfortunately the inverse happened which is muskism Which I'm not totally joking, because there are ways that his embeddedness into the mystique of subculture and erratic way drugs can make your mind go.

00:13:51: Had different outcomes?

00:13:53: And it ended up getting shaped in a particular way by also the material incentives around him, right?

00:13:58: So he was encouraged to go crazy.

00:14:01: and the particular way that you went crazy because It Was Lucrative for Him To Go Crazy In Those Ways.

00:14:09: so what were those ways?

00:14:10: this is like an insanely long preamble to This Question but We back date it too For One Thing The Launching of Open AI with Sam Allman.

00:14:19: Why do we Do That?

00:14:20: Because the launch Of Open AI in twenty fifteen with Sam Altman was very much under the sign of existential risk.

00:14:28: Nick Bostrom theories of runaway digital super intelligence that if left unregulated would turn humanity into paper clips.

00:14:38: gray goo something else, right?

00:14:41: So the point of open AI on paper and seemingly genuinely Was to be very engaged with questions of AI alignment and AI safety to make sure that you didn't accidentally trigger a runaway process of the malevolent AGI.

00:14:58: So, that has earned Musk at the time kind of label of AI skeptic or even his nomination in twenty fifteen as Luddite Of The Year is never ceases to make me laugh.

00:15:11: Um, especially because almost immediately after he founds open AI.

00:15:16: He's founds neural link right?

00:15:18: I mean within about like eighteen months.

00:15:20: and the point of neurolink is to as he describes it not just make things better for people with quadriplegic you know immobility or who've suffered accidents but too expand the interface of interaction between Network technologies and the human brain from that kind of pinpoint on our thumbs in our eyes to like a great rushing river through, you know A kind of broadband link up into the into the brain tissue itself.

00:15:49: So that seems like a strange thing for a Luddite to do.

00:15:52: obviously right but it actually makes sense In his own terms because the argument was Because there's the danger of a runaway to malevolent super intelligence You need to create what he called?

00:16:03: The Human Machine symbiote and accelerate the creation of what he also called giant cyborg that we're becoming or they quote, Giant cybernetic collectives.

00:16:13: That were becoming in relationship to our devices To make sure we stay one step ahead of that Skynet super intelligence.

00:16:20: So if you ask me?

00:16:22: That's when he started going crazy right?

00:16:24: I mean like.

00:16:25: from my point of view thats a tick beyond Like actually is solid grasp on reality.

00:16:31: And yet you know, and because of that moment of the cyborg turn as we think about it in the book.

00:16:40: That a lot of what happens later that becomes more obviously crazy seeming follows.

00:16:45: Because to put it shortly when chat GPT debuts in twenty-twenty two As The first really consumer successful rollout Of LLM technologies all of a sudden investment story and growth story for Silicon Valley changes from web to point.

00:17:04: Oh, two genitive AI.

00:17:06: And there were a lot of false starts in between right?

00:17:09: There was Web three.

00:17:11: It was the metaverse.

00:17:12: They're NFTs that was crypto.

00:17:14: These are all them desperately trying to figure out what the next big thing was and none Of them worked right.

00:17:19: they spent huge amounts of money Huge amount.

00:17:21: some money was raised.

00:17:22: assuming that those we're going to be The Next Big Thing They Weren't chat GPT Was it so What happens when chat GP T?

00:17:27: was it well Musk and Andreessen, and others start playing with chat GPT.

00:17:32: And what do they start getting?

00:17:33: To their horror They find out that because the training data of these LLMs is the internet Of you know two thousand ten to twenty-four It has the politics at the Internet of two thousand Ten to twenty twenty four.

00:17:46: so it believes The Black Lives Matter.

00:17:48: it believes That You Should Defend trans kids.

00:17:50: it Believes That you Know Gender Equality Is a Thing.

00:17:53: And when queried about these things, it produces answers that to them were like the automation of wokeness.

00:18:01: That wokenness had now actually exited human agency and entered an automated space that had unbelievable dangers inherent in it for human futures.

00:18:17: So if you think there's going be a runaway Skynet digital superintelligence and then you think, oh my God.

00:18:22: It's not that but it is a woke runaway digital super intelligence than You get really motivated to figure out how to stop That like as soon as possible.

00:18:30: And this is one of those things that you know when we're describing I'm like Really sounds crazy now, but like that is really exactly what Musk Is saying and what Andreessen is saying And What the a-sixteen Z and all in podcast guys are saying?

00:18:44: It's the dominant technology.

00:18:45: That is our frontier Technology or moment LMS is shot through with the politics of the training data In such A way that it needs to be very heavily intervened in.

00:18:56: With you know reinforcement learning with human feedback and retutored, the weights need to be changed.

00:19:02: To make sure that it achieves what they think of as truth but in their more honest moments like anti-woke mind virus or AI.

00:19:11: So XAI, when it's founded and GROC.

00:19:14: When its ruled out as the chatbot on top of XAI is described as first speaking in The Voice Of The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy which was quite funny And does actually do that.

00:19:23: if you queried it early on Which I did It would just be like oh hey-dee ho neighbor Like this really hokey like seventies like dad jokes.

00:19:32: But then it says, and will answer spicy questions that other models refuse to answer.

00:19:37: Which as we know later ended up meaning they would just talk about white genocide unprompted every query.

00:19:43: Because the point being that it's actually hard to make an anti-woke AI, right?

00:19:47: An anti-Woke LLM because its a probabilistic engine and doesn't respond very well direct commands.

00:19:56: It works from accumulation of all things ingested then extrudes like the mean so tends in the middle of the bell curve.

00:20:06: Actually is not a polarizing engine same way social media.

00:20:10: And some people are starting to think, hmm maybe chatbots or actually the secret of political polarization like coming soon too.

00:20:17: Like a Bundeszentrale für politische Bildung conference near you?

00:20:21: Everyone needs to get on ChatBots To save democracy in The Federal Republic.

00:20:26: I'm not joking at all!

00:20:29: It's been three days at Republika.

00:20:31: i think that was something That Was being talked about there.

00:20:37: Once you've settled on that, what I need to do is build the anti-woke AI.

00:20:40: And I need basically subordinate all of my companies to fund XAI because it's the Mecca Hitler who will defeat the woke super nanny and wants me into a woman in color which he said on Joe Rogan.

00:20:58: Then, you know his craziness is maybe not explained but it's reframed right that.

00:21:03: You see like oh It's because he's in too deep.

00:21:06: Like his idea of like cybernetic fusion has produced these derangements in him That no longer really align with normal people.

00:21:17: ways of understanding the world But to return back to the beginning are nevertheless seemingly highly persuasive investment strategies to the most mediocre and unread-pilled, you know asset managers in the world.

00:21:35: So that is actually The long kind of a loop we had to trace our way through To figure out Musk's craziness.

00:21:44: Yeah it's tough job to have to be in Musk mind so much.

00:21:49: But also, I wanted to ask because you're focused on the kind of longer story.

00:21:54: I'm wondering a bit about which elements off his biography You think are the most kind of pressing and i thought maybe you could start with.

00:22:02: can you tell us who is one oh four five Oh One if you know what?

00:22:07: I mean Which Is I Think The Name That His Grandfather Preferred To Go By?

00:22:13: Yeah, so you know people probably heard reference to this before but Elon Musk's maternal grandfather was part of something called Technocracy Incorporated which was a political movement in the nineteen thirties and Canada United States that Let's say took the thing.

00:22:28: That was quite general.

00:22:29: Which is the experience at The First World War?

00:22:33: was the first really mechanized war.

00:22:36: The First World War, as I always talk to my students about started with basically cavalry horses and ended up with tanks in poison gas.

00:22:43: so it's when that consequences of really the fortest model production became realized at scale for like mass annihilation horrifying to many people, but also quite exciting to other people because it suggested how you could do like total war in peacetime and transform the whole way of organizing economies.

00:23:06: And populations The same way that you used a kind of top-down command and control To fight the war.

00:23:13: so what if you could?

00:23:14: Do That to society?

00:23:15: well I mean that was one Of the inspirations for fascism certainly But It Was Also One of the Inspirations For communism and socialism.

00:23:23: And it was the inspiration for technocracy incorporated, which to Elon Musk's maternal grandfather who is a chiropractor in Saskatchewan suggested that maybe he could play a key role in dissolving the countries of North America down to Venezuela into one giant space called The Technate where there would be no money No votes truck and barter in something called ergs.

00:23:51: And ergs were the amount of energy that each human life, you know produces metabolically over the course of your existence.

00:24:00: so humanity would be reduced to their capacity to expend energy and metabolize energy and there would be a appointed class of engineers technocrats literally who would oversee this process.

00:24:14: So that's what his grandfather was up to.

00:24:16: He ended up being imprisoned briefly because of the support of technocrats for Nazi Germany at the beginning of the Second World War, and then disgruntled with political possibilities in a pretty vanilla scene post-war Canada he went somewhere spicier as Musk would put it which is apartheid.

00:24:39: South Africa had just rolled out apartheid two years earlier.

00:24:43: So it was a gesture of solidarity with the new apartheide modernizing state, and he said so openly that this is maybe anticipates question you're going to ask in a minute, but like way out of the Cold War binary.

00:24:57: It's not just capitalist America and communist Soviet Union.

00:25:01: he And many other people saw South Africa as like a modernizing reactionary state that was equipping itself with new technologies by the eighties.

00:25:10: it's like IBM mainframes they've developed their own nuclear bomb They have imported licenses to build our own fords and Datsuns and all kinds of other automobiles.

00:25:20: so there using a model of what we call in the book, Fortress Futurism which is neither Soviet nor American capitalist but kind of something else.

00:25:30: Which takes advantage of the global market.

00:25:32: But it's really premised on this idea Of like a community that has driven together by risks and by threats both beyond the borders And also inside the borders.

00:25:42: So even though It's not In the traditional way Something We can trace from point to Point in Mosque's biography We think that the way that Musk sells his products now, whether it's like The Tesla Dome can protect you in times of climate breakdown or social unrest.

00:25:58: Or the war-making capabilities of Starship or Starlink these things all kind of channel this South African technocratic spirit of fortress futurism which is an enclave hardened society overseen by adapts engineering adapts who In many cases overrule popular sovereignty or self-determination questions, certainly any idea of one person and vote in the interest of optimizing your ability to defend the chosen people.

00:26:32: Well I think that's interesting also because there are some moments Personally even too used to thinking of Musk as like a ridiculous figure in some kind of way.

00:26:43: But there are moments in the book where you see that he's kind of actually Intuiting something ahead of everyone else.

00:26:49: Like, he's actually noticing something and I think specifically Something that you describe is like He notices something about how Money can relate to the state And like how it can kind of harness the state and use it to its own advantages.

00:27:02: What is that?

00:27:03: That you think what is that relationship?

00:27:05: yeah For a while now, you know people have been writing books about say the history of Silicon Valley or the History of Digital Capitalism and often that kind of like revelation is Like hey silicon valley relied on state funding.

00:27:17: therefore their libertarianism Is bunk?

00:27:20: Or suspect or whatever.

00:27:21: And that's kind of sometimes The big revelatory move which by Now it was like.

00:27:27: we know what we have that magic trick figured out.

00:27:30: nobody surprised anymore.

00:27:31: We Know That.

00:27:32: You Know DARPA Funded the internet and then handed it to private actors in nineteen ninety-five.

00:27:39: We know that The Silicon Valley Sector survived from demand From the military state In the nineteen sixties and seventies And after as well.

00:27:48: In fact, we know so much That there's a number one New York Times bestseller called the technological republic written by Palantir CEO Alexander Karpin which he says we already all know this.

00:27:58: So let's stop focusing on that.

00:28:01: instead start often ends, which is that Silicon Valley is the kind of product of The American military state and Carp's argument as in it should get back to doing the thing It was built to do.

00:28:15: Which has served the american military State?

00:28:18: And That's what the technological Republic Is like.

00:28:22: the function Of big tech will not be too Produce convenience or you know daily pleasure Or rising prosperity even but To protect Americans against threats from outside their borders and inside their borders.

00:28:36: So that's the state of play right now, so I think if you want to understand the MAGA Tech tie-up or direction for investors who make people excited about new startups in the valley it is all headed this way – hard tech, military tech… It has the State often as its primary customer in mind.

00:29:03: So that's, in a way just like basic reporting right?

00:29:07: Like we know it is currently true.

00:29:09: What interesting about Musk if he did kind of whether through his superior insight His childhood in South Africa or dumb luck end up really being a forerunner For the model of Silicon Valley's primary customer as state and so align our investments.

00:29:30: Case in point, most obvious is SpaceX.

00:29:33: Which launches in two thousand and it launches into the first year of the global war on terror because something that happened as we describe in a book The Day Before Nine Eleven.

00:29:45: So the day before nine eleven September tenth two thousand one Donald Rumsfeld gives us speech in the Pentagon And he says the Cold War over Soviet Union was defeated.

00:29:56: Now we have a new enemy and it's a lot like the Soviet Union.

00:29:59: It is rule bound, its authoritarian Its top-down centralized not very responsive to outside stimulus And it Is us.

00:30:07: We The Pentagon bureaucracy are the New Enemy?

00:30:10: We need To defeat this You know Legacy of rigid bureaucratic soviet style thinking in Our Own ranks and We Need to get all Of Those Like Young Guns from Silicon Valley to come out and Help Us do This.

00:30:25: Next day, of course the whole security environment changes and one of the things that Rumsfeld has already saying at that point.

00:30:33: is it's way that wars are going to be fought.

00:30:35: It's gonna Be different.

00:30:36: this becomes called a rumsfeld doctrine?

00:30:38: It's not going To be large land-based armies boots on the ground even though Of course end up being more than that.

00:30:43: then he hoped its Going to be mostly about Agile special forces deployed all over The world with you know, satellite guided munitions that back them up.

00:30:57: So we're going to need among other things a huge array of new tactical satellites that are taking advantage of the GPS system which has only been perfected within the last decade.

00:31:08: and That's where Musk steps in says I've got you SpaceX is gonna provide for you what your needs And We're Going To Put Those Satellites Into orbit For You Much More Cheaply?

00:31:19: So and then over the next twenty years, he lowers the cost of putting mass in orbit by ninety percent.

00:31:25: He now is responsible for eighty percent of rocket launch of orbital launches worldwide at ninety five percent In The United States.

00:31:36: And soon you start making his own satellites as maybe some people know.

00:31:41: two thousand nineteen.

00:31:42: he starts putting Starlink satellites in the air.

00:31:44: Now just seven years later there's eleven thousand satellites.

00:31:48: He has a request in the FCC to put one million satellites into low earth orbit, this wasn't a viable space for internet connectivity until he pioneered it.

00:31:59: and you know again most people in this room probably know this but SpaceX will go public next month at projected value of one point seven five trillion dollars which would be the biggest IPO on history and immediately make SpaceX the sixth most valuable country company in the world.

00:32:15: so This has been a very successful model for him to graft himself onto primarily the status customer.

00:32:24: And so, we were talking in the back about when was Elon kind of cuddly?

00:32:31: When did liberals like Elon in United States anyway and certainly places like Holland and Germany too... Was he focused on electric vehicles right?

00:32:40: When Tesla was most identified with them?

00:32:44: but even there I'm quite happy that we talk about in the book, because I don't think it's well known.

00:32:50: There is a state symbiosis tie-in as well Because if he gets his start with SpaceX In the rollout of The Global War on Terror Tesla ends up profiting from backlash against The War On Terror.

00:33:04: So just six years later, two thousand eight Obama becomes the chosen Democratic candidate As the antiwar candidate.

00:33:11: He gets the nomination because Hillary was for war and he was against Coming into the White House.

00:33:16: He's dealing with you know clusterfuck in Iraq and a global financial crisis.

00:33:23: Which means that?

00:33:23: The major auto companies are going bankrupt at the time.

00:33:27: right what does he do?

00:33:28: something very smart which he says, the way we can actually get ourselves out of the Middle East save the auto sector and make things different.

00:33:36: And better in the United States is by going hard into renewables electrify the auto-sector and do basically like green industrial policy with all of the tools that this state available.

00:33:48: That way will have what we call electric autonomy.

00:33:50: We will not have to fight wars In the Carter doctrine sense To protect oil resources in the Middle East.

00:33:58: And he's looking around, there is not actually that.

00:34:00: many people are making cool EVs except for this guy named Elon Musk who just becomes the CEO of Tesla and the primary investor In two thousand nine gets a five hundred billion dollar loan from The Department Of Energy life-saving loan For tesla and That ends up being really successful.

00:34:15: Why don't we know about?

00:34:16: Or think About it?

00:34:18: Because just a couple of years later, the shale revolution means that America doesn't have to worry about oil anymore.

00:34:24: It uses fracking technology to take oil out its own deposits mostly in Texas and then now as we know it's the world's net exporter or it is an exporter of petroleum rather than importer which are termed conditions for possibility for the reckless self-destructive war.

00:34:45: Obviously, making one of those moments.

00:34:47: You know you have Sven saying no to Musk at Burkine and then whoever whatever asshole developed fracking technology like.

00:34:55: if that had not been developed Then maybe in our fondest dreams America could be China.

00:35:01: right now I Wonder.

00:35:06: i mean there's still time by the way.

00:35:07: If anyone is watching The Beijing visit recently I want to turn to Hayek's bastards and talk about this, but one of the interesting things is... ...I wonder a bit about the connecting tissue between two books.

00:35:19: And also since we're in Germany….

00:35:22: …we've seen Musk make an explicit appeal to support the AFD appear at their rallies.

00:35:30: In Hayeck's bastards it's interesting that you… trace how the politics of the far right actually doesn't emerge in, you know some people say reaction to neoliberalism but from within it.

00:35:44: The intellectual tradition of neoliberal is has a lot of equipment which gives the far-right there intellectual framework.

00:35:52: so I wonder if we can kind put those things together somehow?

00:35:56: Yeah and also i'll see couple thing about that.

00:35:58: one is this book really came out.

00:36:04: It was a long time cooking and it ended up kind of like part of another book, the crack-up capitalism book.

00:36:09: And then got shorn out of it and lived this longer life.

00:36:15: Then by the time Millet became the head of Argentina as a devotee at Murray Rothbard I thought oh we have a lovely book hand here.

00:36:24: but yeah in twenty sixteen seventeen many people probably remember that This is common narrative which Neoliberalism went too far, globalization has kind of produced its own gravediggers.

00:36:36: The left behinds of the heartlands have now had their revenge and if you're a critic of neoliberalism You might wish for different outcome but grudgingly like hand it to the people who get, who are like the mouthpieces of The People Who Have Been Fucked Over Basically By Fifteen Twenty Years Of Free Trade Deals And Inattention To People Who Are Just Seen As Disposable Or Surplus.

00:37:01: There Is Something To That Argument If You Look At It From What Populism Scholars Call The Demand Side Which is Like Why Did People Vote For Trump?

00:37:09: Well Yes!

00:37:10: People in Michigan and Wisconsin Voted for Trump Because They Saw Their livelihoods gutted from one or two generations to the next.

00:37:19: But if you look at the supply side, which is like who's doing the talking?

00:37:22: Who's serving as a vessel for those kind of politics?

00:37:26: and then?

00:37:26: furthermore do they actually follow through on any of the promises that they make to the people who voted for them?

00:37:33: than this story actually changes almost one hundred eighty degrees.

00:37:37: And I use examples economic advisors who were literally writing Trump's tax policy and his Economic Policy in this first term.

00:37:49: we're Arthur Laffer if anyone's heard of the laffer curve.

00:37:53: I mean that father-of-supply side economics Reagan's primary advisor Trump's primary economic adviser wrote a book called trumponomics.

00:38:03: It's not like it was hidden.

00:38:05: uh, it sold pretty well.

00:38:06: And what does he advise him to do?

00:38:08: To Do tax rates cuts for the wealthiest, which is the only real legislative accomplishment of Trump's first term as the twenty seventeen tax cuts and that are just doctrinaire heritage foundation Kato Institute Reagan era policies.

00:38:26: So from me there was a kind of frustration pundits.

00:38:30: And this has changed now, but it really was the case in twenty sixteen seventeen that people would just be like.

00:38:35: It's so sad that neoliberalism went too far and there is this backlash Now what we have as populism?

00:38:40: I'm just like What the fuck are you talking about Like?

00:38:42: look at where these people are actually doing.

00:38:44: they're following chapter-inverse Neoliberal policies.

00:38:49: They're doing nothing to address those very things That may have swept them into power Galloping inequality deindustrialization, you know subjugation to the global rule of the market etc.

00:39:00: So that was in In The US very clear and Germany like almost more clear.

00:39:05: right because the AFD as I'm sure everyone knows is like founded by order liberal economics professors from Hamburg and elsewhere.

00:39:16: And they found the party in a way that actually ended up splitting the Friedrich Hayek Society which they were all members of, because they thought that it was sensible to make alliances with ethno-nationalists and German chauvinist.

00:39:33: To save the German economy from being undermined eventually destroyed by Europeanism.

00:39:41: the European Central Bank, which they saw as profligate bailing out this supposedly wasteful Southern Europeans.

00:39:50: They needed to get back to the Deutschmark... Which then meant of course two their allies in the ethnoshoveness wing at the party got back like a blood and soil vision of Germany.

00:40:01: but the founders were not actually blood-and-soil style shoveness in the first instance, they were thinking economically.

00:40:10: Their turn to right their turn to populism was argued and economistic terms that we actually need to restore German values We-we needs that are primarily economically understood.

00:40:23: even Tilo Zarazin who writes The Book That Meant the Most really for the revival of the far Right in Germany Deutschland scharf sich ab is a very weird book.

00:40:35: Like, I don't know how many people have tried to read that book?

00:40:38: Interesting almost nobody then.

00:40:39: you definitely haven't read the footnotes because if you had You find something really crazy actually which Is kind of The whole argument Of Hayek's bastards Which is How does Sogatin make the case for immigration restrictionism?

00:40:54: Does he say That there are Christian or even Judeo-Christian values that need To be protected against Muslim Values?

00:41:01: No not Really.

00:41:02: Does he say that Germany has a proud tradition and Europe has produced, I don't know, Play-Doh to NATO or whatever?

00:41:09: No.

00:41:09: He doesn't say that either.

00:41:10: What does he says is look at these psychology journal articles, which show that on average populations from Muslim majority countries have lower IQs.

00:41:21: Which we can understand economically to mean they have worse impulse control They had an inability to think in long term... ...they haven't more of a likelihood to become welfare dependents and the less likely it would be come productive entrepreneurial members Of the class.

00:41:34: so he actually makes argument against Muslim immigration on these pseudoscientific social science grounds.

00:41:44: It's actually not ethno-nationalist in any way that you would recognize that, it is economicistic thinking which suited him as an economist former board member of the Bundesbank.

00:41:54: and so because I'm sure we don't have time to get into the whole thesis.

00:41:59: The argument of that book is like a lot of things were interpreted as turn away from economic thinking, it's supposed opposite which cultural and national thinking was actually often not at all.

00:42:13: this idea is a kind of radicalization, an idea human capital in which populations get understood and economistic terms.

00:42:23: And then resorted.

00:42:24: given new hierarchies along those lines IQ ends up being really important one.

00:42:28: I unfortunately feel that validated every time you see Musk or Trump to connect the two books using low IQ or high IQ as somehow like transparently legible compliments, or insults.

00:42:44: My favorite being.

00:42:45: when little ex Musk's son came into The White House and met Trump and Trump said you seem like a hi IQ individual who has ever complimented a child was it can't actually even speak in that particular way?

00:43:01: Like You Can See That Some strange scientisation of, you know human hierarchy has been so like cooked into these people's brains that thats the lens through which they see the world.

00:43:16: Yeah Im conscious about time a bit but I want to ask just exactly this kind question when we're thinking fundamental idea structure that grows out of this project.

00:43:30: You talk about the three hards, they kind of insist on hard borders and hard money which comes through IQ.

00:43:39: I wonder if how do those become the kind One of the weird things that happened when I was looking in the archives and newspaper articles about like what were they neoliberal intellectuals organized?

00:44:02: In The Mont Pelerin Society seeing themselves somehow on the tradition of Milton Friedman Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich Hayek Saying at the end of the Cold War, Like how did they understand That to have happened.

00:44:14: How do They explain that apparent you know world historical victory?

00:44:18: And the very surprising thing that really became, again riddle out of which this book came was like they were actually pretty unsure if they'd won The Cold War.

00:44:32: They saw it two ways.

00:44:34: One way is we haven't actually won and because social spending didn't dip at all as a percentage of GDP so maybe we didn't kill the welfare state.

00:44:47: The red menace has just changed colors and there's now a green menace in this form of environmentalism.

00:44:54: There is kind of pink menace, the form of feminism and gay rights activism.

00:45:00: Other demands as radicalization to civil right agenda towards affirmative action quotas in workplace harassment laws disability laws that are all infringing on power manager boss giving them less space shape the world as they wanted to.

00:45:19: So this was, uh...this is a main discourse that had with like this.

00:45:24: communism was actually in weird way hadn't been an issue for decades right?

00:45:29: I mean you're looking at the world and nineteen eighty nine nineteen ninety from United States.

00:45:34: You look around for a long time before you find any communists that you need to be worried about, but you can look around and see like oh there's new law needing to put in I don't know ramps for every business.

00:45:45: For people in wheelchairs or there is a new law actually does make it possible for women to accuse their bosses of having misused the authority as men.

00:45:55: There are title nine laws at universities so Indeed kind of changes in like speech codes and the allowable conduct.

00:46:04: However, they interpreted those things as a new road to serfdom.

00:46:08: So What it was called then?

00:46:10: Was political correctness?

00:46:11: that was the umbrella term for everything I'm talking about here.

00:46:13: We know what its call now which is wokeness.

00:46:16: And their line from my Protagonists there are saying in nineteen ninety two like a Chris Ruffo right-wing Gramscianism and MAGA to where you go at the institutions of cultural production And try to tear them out by their route.

00:46:30: That's one storyline, so So that is felt Necessary to figure out.

00:46:37: what did they?

00:46:38: who were they worried about when The communists for gone basically?

00:46:41: We know the answer feminist anti racist environmentalists.

00:46:46: I mean, those are really the Holy Trinity and that more have been added of course over time for them.

00:46:52: so The solution they had was as you say hard monies hard money hard borders And hardware at human nature.

00:47:00: Hardwired Human Nature becomes a way to say.

00:47:03: the egalitarian claims of this nineteen sixties and seventies were always based on false premises the you know, Franz Boasian idea that race is a social construct.

00:47:14: It was actually always a lie and The truth of human differences in the bones And maybe not quite the skulls but certainly the DNA.

00:47:25: and In the nineteen nineties if you remember the completion of the Human Genome project there's a huge amount of talk about DNA genes neuro genetic determinism The gene for this, the gene for that.

00:47:38: The gay gene and criminal gene... Everything was being filtered through this renewed biologicized idea of human nature which they completely piggybacked on too.

00:47:47: They're like see all that social construction stuff All those social movements talk about human equality was always just a big ruse by the left to try and amass more power for themselves.

00:47:59: And now we're telling the truth about humans because, you know bodies inferiority and statistical averages in racial groups In books like The Bell Curve which is an enormous bestseller sold hundreds of thousands stayed in the New York Times bestseller list for a whole year, is still in print and has a dense eight hundred page psychological treatise about basic inequality of humans.

00:48:26: So they were onto something.

00:48:27: obviously someone bought all those books.

00:48:29: there was a mood-in-the air that there was demand on American white middle class to have their own superiority revalidated even more than it already validated and reentrenched like scientific language.

00:48:43: And that's the story I tell from a point of view, hard-wired human nature.

00:48:49: On heart borders.

00:48:50: it is related to what I just said about Zaratzin kind.

00:48:56: gives you version of that.

00:48:58: Neoliberals if someone asked quickly they don't want open boarders for everything like money moves good move people moved go into place exploitation whatever make bosses most money.

00:49:11: but answer no.

00:49:13: And they talk about this in Globalists, the book I wrote a little while ago.

00:49:16: That since the nineteen thirties neoliberals themselves have been like.

00:49:20: eh no there are human factors their sociological factors.

00:49:24: if you have mass immigration people just don't Like it?

00:49:27: They react.

00:49:28: so If You Have enough free trade and enough liberalized financial flows then that can kind of substitute for This other factor or production that tends to move less.

00:49:38: Quite literally, they've made that case since the thirties and have justified it away kind of begrudgingly.

00:49:43: I mean Ludwig von Mises said openly like oh love if we had a world's open borders?

00:49:48: It could be great If people can just travel around to wherever their needed.

00:49:51: but People are really attached to nationalities.

00:49:54: They seem to have sensitivity about cultural difference.

00:49:57: So which is why Hayek then supports Thatcher immigration restriction policy?

00:50:00: because he was Like i would Love To say yes But i know humans Are imperfect so We Have to give A Kind Of concession.

00:50:07: So in the nineteen nineties, they there's an interesting similar pivot where.

00:50:12: The Wall Street Journal for example on the late eighties every fourth of July four years would publish the same op-ed.

00:50:18: that said a new amendment needs to be added to the American Constitution that says their shall be open borders which is again one those things.

00:50:26: and I was like or ain't like rubbing my eyes?

00:50:29: Like.

00:50:29: am i actually reading this right?

00:50:31: Because, of course the right has been accusing left in United States for years at being four open borders.

00:50:37: And I was like what are you talking about?

00:50:38: Like Clinton built first part on border wall literally Obama deported more people than anyone else before him.

00:50:46: The Left Democrats not even socialist or have nuanced thoughts how that's supposed to work.

00:50:53: But Wall Street Journal actually was for open borders in the late-nineteen days.

00:50:56: They're criticizing the militarization of the border, coming down hard on the use technology to police it.

00:51:02: and what's really important understand about The American Right maybe more than anything is how they turned away from that vision right?

00:51:09: Like How they then embraced restrictionism which Is On its face Hard To justify under economic logic alone.

00:51:17: because you are kind Of undermining yourself if You say no we're restricting immigration.

00:51:23: It's well known that illegal immigration has positive economic benefits because people work without receiving the contributions they make to this social state in the course of working.

00:51:35: So if you're just using that cold hard logic, then actually would probably be more down for open borders.

00:51:41: but In the nineties They start assembling this argument That comes Down on an idea Of human hierarchy which is?

00:51:48: No we want To close The Borders except For People like a bespoke designer version of immigration that we choose who we want.

00:51:55: Fast forward to H-one B model, people like Elon Musk very much defends in the United States.

00:52:01: now for Silicon Valley software engineers.

00:52:05: or just use the rule of thumb which is statistical averages say from Latin America average lower IQ.

00:52:14: therefore you can do a rough cut and pull at Trump, why aren't there more Norwegians or whatever?

00:52:21: Why so many

00:52:21: Haitians?".

00:52:22: And that kind of ratification of gutter racism through pseudoscience ends up being quite important actually.

00:52:30: It ends up where the closed borders people end up agreeing then reacting to this demand side seeing anti-immigrant policy works with base.

00:52:43: let's figure out way to justify it.

00:52:45: Lastly, and just a land on that I guess is the hard money thing.

00:52:49: My favorite image which unfortunately isn't in the book Is an image of Karl Marx's head floating over Frankfurt Which comes from the blog of a guy named Peter Beringer who was an AFD delegate From Munich I think is still in the Bundestag, but began his career as a precious metals consultant and he posted that image online.

00:53:12: In that time when he was a blogger and gold consultants because He thought that the ECB Was The engine of what?

00:53:20: He called monetary socialism.

00:53:21: not just him But many people call That it was fiat.

00:53:25: currency was actually the way that the left had bought off oppressed populations minority populations immigrant populations And Just purchased their loyalty and created a new permanent constituency for themselves.

00:53:41: that would never have been able to happen if gold had never been departed from as the backing of currency.

00:53:49: And this is, it's actually the essence Because of money printing and the profligacy of central banks, so you need to go back to precious metal backing.

00:54:09: And this is like a pretty crank theory even in the neoliberal community.

00:54:13: So it's actually very unusual To believe that most neoliberals think you need like fiat money plus rules Like that would be like Milton Friedman James Buchanan.

00:54:22: But there are people like Murray Rothbard Javier Milais aforementioned, um you know icon who did think.

00:54:31: You needed to roll back monetary theory back to like gold and burringer amazingly was one of them is one of the early AFD delegates an ends up being the treasurer for The Bundestag because they're this guy thinks about money a lot.

00:54:45: he'll probably be acceptably frugal.

00:54:52: the shredding of fiat money as a possibility and getting back to one-to-one gold bars.

00:54:57: It's like, it is one those ones in the course writing this that I'll just mention two things because they're Germany specific and their pretty wild actually.

00:55:05: One is when AFD was starting.

00:55:08: normally if you are new party you raise funds through membership dues And then federal government matches the membership dues Because its sort part promoting democracy.

00:55:18: The AFD figured out a hack, which is they didn't actually have to raise membership dues.

00:55:22: They could sell gold coins.

00:55:24: So the AFT had a Gold Shop that was literally selling South African Krugerans Canadian maples Chinese pandas all of these sort of iconic Gold Coins issued by the Mint.

00:55:36: so the various countries.

00:55:37: and then when someone bought the gold coin from them?

00:55:39: They got the match From the federal government to subsidize the AFD.

00:55:43: in its early days And um In the early days Ben Luca, he boasted that they were the only party headquarters.

00:55:54: There was also a profit center.

00:55:56: so there you know.

00:55:57: That way in which you can kind of monetize distrust In the normal functioning of the government and use it to both undermine existing legacy institutions And also enrich yourself at the same time is like The kind of essence of this right-wing libertarianism that I think as often Misunderstood as like the populace, right?

00:56:19: One last thing I'll mention though with a burringer think just because again It's that Germany thinking it's wild is that burringers started spreading this theory.

00:56:26: That The Americans had stolen Germany's gold.

00:56:30: has anyone heard about this theory?

00:56:32: Yeah So the argument which is not an argument Which was true that the German Reserves their gold reserves were held in United States and of course at the Cold War Because Of Course If the Soviets advanced, you wouldn't want to let them plunder their gold reserves.

00:56:49: So after the Cold War they stayed there just because they were always there and so no one really felt a need to bring it back Because no-one thought about national economies needing to have gold within their borders Actually quite common for like the Bank of England or Federal Reserve To hold the gold bars themselves.

00:57:06: Beringer starts spreading this kind of suspicion that actually The gold wasn't there anymore that the Americans had melted it down.

00:57:17: They had misplaced, they had expropriated themselves and we want to see the gold like.

00:57:23: show us the gold And this is funny until The Bundesbank says okay.

00:57:30: So thats'the crazy part.

00:57:31: Is the Bundesbank was right you got a point?

00:57:33: And bring back big chunk of German Gold Reserves have public exhibition in Frankfurt where Okay, good.

00:57:43: It's here.

00:57:45: But then of course like this is why it's an even better illustration Of This Logic.

00:57:51: Is Bringer goes and he's Like that's not the real gold.

00:57:57: I can tell The way its stamped.

00:58:00: No no they just melted this down And remelted into German style ingots.

00:58:04: not the real gold, they have still been lying to us.

00:58:07: So it becomes like the right wing libertarian equivalent of Obama's birth certificate which is no production of evidence can actually ever satisfy this demand for truth because its' not designed to be satisfied.

00:58:20: It's not actually seeking affirmation or validation.

00:58:25: Its meant so suspicion and continually undermine mode of political reasoning and strategizing that I was trying to get to the heart of in this book.

00:58:36: Well, it's great... well i guess as a last question I wanted to ask about something in a way bridging the two books which is each thing seems to be trying to do this move of like re-naturalising inequality In some kind of way trying find ways that the hierarchies or world we live on aren't created by the way we've decided to organize a world but are instead sort of baked in and natural.

00:59:02: And one way that seemed like kind of futuristic baroque way is this simulation theory or something, you know?

00:59:11: Like this idea which Musk is keen on... We're really living in this simulation which's on computer servers somewhere else.

00:59:21: so it seems building in that kind of determinism by the inner rock backdoor, and I wondered if you think... Do you think it's a fundamental move they're trying to do is try to bake this human inequality?

00:59:39: Yeah.

00:59:40: They are both opposed to the same thing which is societies collectively should not be able re-imagine their own existence political imaginative undertaking of the last two hundred years in all its you know half starts and like excesses and failures is something that just needs to be solved through a technical arrangement.

01:00:08: And for the neoliberals, this has always been minority populations trying to centralize power for their own interest, so we need to ground it now in something that cannot be questioned.

01:00:21: That sits outside of politics...that sits outside social relations and from us gets to say because the metaphor thinking through everything is the computer that we should be able to treat humanity like a computer program.

01:00:40: And those parts of it, they don't act the way I like it to act are re-described as bugs or viruses or bots and NPCs or vampires use some various ways.

01:00:50: he's described part.

01:00:51: so code base finds nonoptimized actually pretty different ways.

01:01:01: You know how to get where you want to go.

01:01:03: It's it's a different Train of thinking and actually, it's its big jump methodologically from the two books Even though as you say there's this sort of a similar reactionary quality to their politics.

01:01:16: But neoliberals in the end were part of a kind of humanistic tradition that we would probably mostly recognize, right?

01:01:23: I mean they saw the importance of ideas.

01:01:25: They saw the important of persuasion and argumentation.

01:01:29: They see the importance principles of liberty an individualism And trying to figure out The sort set laws and state incentives and constraints That could get their version of Liberty.

01:01:44: So even if I often distrust their motives or find that they're anti-socialism excessive, misguided and even hateful.

01:01:54: There is a kind of like...I recognize the way neoliberals have been writing about for most part in last ten to fifteen years.

01:02:02: try to engage with politics.

01:02:04: What's so alien actually much more troubling about Elon Musk?

01:02:09: He doesn't have any relationship to this humanistic tradition.

01:02:13: he just does not give a shit Like, he doesn't care about it.

01:02:16: He might as Marc Andreessen or others do in the most superficial way possible make some reference to it like oh this is in The Tradition of.

01:02:26: I Didn't Like.

01:02:26: They'll Just Pick a Name Out Of Hell Like Locke!

01:02:28: Like they don't actually know anything what their talking bout Because Actually Their Coming At It From the point of view, someone like Musk who got a programmable Commodore when he was a teenager saw this as kind of the control unit for reality and then continued to see the world through the programmable code base.

01:02:48: And so that again apparent delusion rewarded in unimaginably huge ways.

01:02:55: So When He's In Silicon Valley And he says, the internet is becoming a superset of all media.

01:03:01: Everything's going to get folded into the Internet.

01:03:03: You'll have banking you will have email mail TV radio shopping government everything would be on the Internet.

01:03:11: People are like wow Okay that's not gonna happen but interesting idea.

01:03:17: Of course she was right.

01:03:18: He ends up being Right.

01:03:19: So his way of evacuating human experience from those long and winding political arguments, that at some level the neoliberals were also products of.

01:03:31: Short-circuiting straight to the creation of the programmable personal computer basically and saying history starts here And everything else before.

01:03:40: this is just beyond meaningless.

01:03:43: It's something I actually had known kind of intellectually but only really felt being in San Francisco for last couple weeks.

01:03:49: We're like I don't know how put my finger on it But a city has turned its back the idea of humanism.

01:03:58: The only thing that matters here is how can you plug into this new matrix and make it work better more efficiently?

01:04:05: It's not even about liberty, but individualism actually.

01:04:09: Musk doesn't consider those priorities.

01:04:17: you know, cleansed of obstacles and irregularities in made to operate at its highest possible kind of velocity if output.

01:04:25: And that is actually.

01:04:27: I didn't think i'd be able to kinda blackpill myself even more than I had with the previous stuff I've been reading but like wow guy managed to do it.

01:04:35: interesting because now we have met people who like Andreessen are proud about not being interested in self-reflection right?

01:04:43: Like would think that's a fault.

01:04:47: And judging again by the verediction of market, who's wrong?

01:04:52: Them or me.

01:04:53: So it really forces to be like look at my own inconsequentialness full in face and say wow maybe this is just a world where things we all thought mattered don't anymore.

01:05:07: I wonder if there are any way out.

01:05:18: Like I said at the top, we had a great response to the first three episodes when we launched in the first week of July.

01:05:23: The next episode will come out in two weeks and In the meantime you can check us out heisberlinn.com.

01:05:29: Get your daily news weekly features weekend event guides And much more.

01:05:33: again We'd really appreciate it if you could become an accomplice starting at nine euros monthly?

01:05:39: We are independent.

01:05:40: We our worker owned so any little bit helps us extend our runway.

01:05:45: You can write us any tips or pitches to hello at heisberlin.com.

01:05:50: See you soon, bye.