Berlin election winners and losers - with the HEIST editors

00:00:03: And in fairness, I guess the Remo crime family is very fun to read about.

00:00:08: Well what are you know?

00:00:09: What other remote family known for in like Berlin news.

00:00:12: I think The main thing Is this twenty-eighteen museum heist where they stole This giant gold coin.

00:00:19: oh that was them.

00:00:20: That

00:00:20: wasn't Dresden right?

00:00:21: no

00:00:22: No, there

00:00:24: were two

00:00:24: of my commute to work.

00:00:26: that day.

00:00:26: i had To Like get out Of the train.

00:00:28: well

00:00:28: the dressing room Was a big egg.

00:00:31: The Dresden one was a jewel heist.

00:00:33: This one is the gold coin.

00:00:34: heist, get your heists straight Ben.

00:00:45: Welcome to the Heist Podcast.

00:00:47: I'm Ben Schumann-Stohler.

00:00:48: Today we're going talk about Berlin elections which happened by time.

00:00:51: this comes out A week ago on Sunday the twentieth of September.

00:00:55: There's been alot fallout as there always has in these kinds of political moments and this ones even bigger maybe even a political turning point because Die Linke at left party won election for first ever.

00:01:06: So, now already some things are very clear and somethings less clear.

00:01:09: But in this episode I'm joined by Heist Founding Editors And really the voice at heart & soul behind everything heist is Peter Matthews and Ruthie Weisman.

00:01:18: Hi Peter!

00:01:18: Hi Ruthie!

00:01:19: Hi Ben!

00:01:21: And we're all gonna try to make sense of what happened.

00:01:23: What's interesting about results and response Even though now the parties are negotiating, who's going to actually rule?

00:01:29: What's the ruling coalition and what Berlin's government will look like in fact.

00:01:32: So but let's start at Sunday night.

00:01:35: on election night you two were at The D-Link a watch party.

00:01:41: tell us about it.

00:01:41: Um It was pretty cool I think.

00:01:46: Yeah We were up In this sort of like press and campaign area Up above so we're watching the crowd react too.

00:01:53: The numbers come down at six p.m.. Sort of the preliminary numbers

00:01:58: and it turned out to be a kind of historic win.

00:02:00: I mean, um...I think the number that got announced when we were there was the first exit poll which put them up twenty four point five percent Which is like A good three or four percent above where they've been polling beforehand.

00:02:16: And those are big celebration.

00:02:17: you know everyone's really excited too To get it.

00:02:20: and then as the numbers came in over-the-night actually they did a little bit better than that, infact.

00:02:25: And so there was really profound win for The Left who'd been polling ahead most of time but had got a bit tighter recent weeks before the poll.

00:02:36: So I think even the party itself is quite shocked by how well...was pleasantly surprised at how well their done.

00:02:45: They had been pulling ahead for much of the summer, but not by that much like buy a point and this is by.

00:02:51: This has six points almost six points ahead of where they have been polling For most of the Summer.

00:02:57: Yeah So it puts them in really strong position now.

00:03:01: I mean you'd very much expect then to take the mayoral ship And to kind of lead the government which would be the first time that D linker Have ever led a government in Berlin?

00:03:11: Maybe we'll talk about.

00:03:12: some of their interesting reactions to that have come out in the last couple of, In The Last Day.

00:03:17: Is it true?

00:03:19: I heard some rumors that food was very expensive at the D-LINK.

00:03:21: Was

00:03:22: it expensive?

00:03:23: Ten euros for a kind of quite thin looking shawarma...

00:03:28: There were also burgers by card only!

00:03:33: I was pretty surprised by the cadence of the night i think i was expecting from my experience covering other elections.

00:03:41: You know things are tighter and you the first round is sort of there's a lot of like hedging Like oh those are good numbers, but let's see.

00:03:47: And then as more results come out The night gets More celebratory?

00:03:54: It was really celebratory right at the start.

00:03:56: from the beginning that was like the big reveal Right at six p.m.. Then everything else just sort of affirmed it.

00:04:02: Yeah so to set level here as we talk about the rest of election.

00:04:08: Here's some of the basic overview numbers, so D'Linca won the state election with twenty-five point seven percent of the vote making it the largest party in the capital for the first time The ruling CDU Party continuing their disastrous year.

00:04:23: Actually It was from Chancellor Friedrich Mitz the word disaster.

00:04:26: he called that night a disaster.

00:04:28: They dropped almost ten percentage points down to eighteen point eight percent.

00:04:33: Delinka took a bunch of the CDU votes.

00:04:35: So they actually took sixteen thousand votes from the CDU, which I thought was really interesting.

00:04:38: and They took way more almost forty thousand votes From the SPD Which continues its uh i think it's candidate didn't use the word disaster used The word catastrophe many times on the night.

00:04:49: Another cool point?

00:04:50: I think worth sharing is voter turnout.

00:04:52: if you're from other democracies like where I Was born the number seventy four point two percent Is shockingly high.

00:04:58: an amazing and really cool.

00:05:00: It was actually up over eleven percent from two thousand twenty-three the last election.

00:05:04: And a big reason why is because for the first time sixteen year olds could vote.

00:05:08: So that's also really cool more people get to vote.

00:05:10: and that's not only important Because some of these sixteen years might have to serve in the army according to the current government, but it Was also a big base for delinquent cuz they mobilized.

00:05:20: The most new voters.

00:05:22: Those are kind of the main things.

00:05:23: we can Also talk about who?

00:05:25: I

00:05:28: was trying to quickly Google and figure out what percent of people their favorite color is just purple.

00:05:34: I mean, i did want to say something about colors in the electoral topography because In every year if you look at the map of Berlin or every election You can sort-of make conclusions.

00:05:45: So The Election Map has an interesting geographical Topography Color Scheme.

00:05:52: There's a Purple Magenta Center now not purple like DeLinka dark red.

00:05:57: Right, I mean it's interesting to compare with because the last time there was a repeat election.

00:06:02: so we like instead of having the normal five year cycle We had a sortly curtailed three years Because the last election was bungled and then they had to do again.

00:06:12: But last time It really kind of black-done up With some green filling or something

00:06:19: CDU on the rim.

00:06:22: The hipsters were their bicycles in middle.

00:06:24: That is right.

00:06:26: It was, I mean this is again like it's a complicated thing because there's the first vote and second vote.

00:06:32: but on the second boat really everywhere was De Linka kind of purple stretching out bit further east.

00:06:41: And then sort black ring around.

00:06:44: that was sort of black in west and depressingly blue for AFD in East.

00:06:50: Yeah

00:06:50: its Black & Blue.

00:06:51: now The Ring which is new.

00:06:52: Also important then probably to mention that the AFT actually came in third place in this election.

00:06:56: So not only did a leftist party win, but a far right party was also one of the major successful parties on Sunday.

00:07:05: so to kind of break down maybe some of the takes and what we can learn from the election.

00:07:12: let's talk about like why were some people very excited about the results?

00:07:16: And why are some?

00:07:21: Really a really strong reaction from some parts of the media and society on both sides.

00:07:26: The news today on Heist.

00:07:28: who wrote it.

00:07:28: Today, I think Peter you wrote out to write like captured Some of that?

00:07:32: I guess when this episode comes out will have been last week.

00:07:34: but Go check out the news on heist.

00:07:37: Berlin.

00:07:37: in this past

00:07:38: It was the one about the Backlash to the election.

00:07:42: yeah so there's been a backlash So let's start their.

00:07:45: what has the backlash looked like?

00:07:46: What is it consisting of, what's going to stay you think in the next couple weeks from The Backlash and just kind of an immediate sort-of loser vibe.

00:07:54: Yeah I think that a good point...I mean its interesting to think about whats gonna say because i do thing some will definitely recede as we go forward.

00:08:02: there'll be new scandals.

00:08:03: but so if u try and understand the points really sticking points.

00:08:13: I mean, i think that even in the lead-up to The Campaign you saw... ...the different areas with which other parties predominantly maybe the CDU tried to kind of call on its potential future coalition partners and the Greens under SBD to like rule out a coalition with Linker over it.

00:08:33: And those would probably be expropriation—the idea they'd socialized major profit-seeking housing corporations, primarily Vinovia which is passed by a successful referendum few years ago and all of the political parties have been dragging their feet over.

00:08:53: The left party was most clearly in favour of it.

00:08:56: they've now said that are going to try push through but the SPD said this would be sticking point.

00:09:08: enter a coalition with the party that was so much for, for that law.

00:09:14: And then I think the other kind of key point which parties have been trying to make trouble and we've seen more in the media aftermath is accusations of anti-Semitism on left and primarily in the Neukölln branch like a somewhat racially motivated accusation.

00:09:38: Noikern being a big immigrant population and so there's the idea that they have problem with antisemitism, you saw also on election night when co-leader of The Greens came out said we won't enter government with party led by antisemites from noikern

00:09:59: which is dog whistle basically saying Muslims.

00:10:03: And you wrote this, Peter.

00:10:04: In the news this morning which I thought was a smart point like it felt Like a lot of the narrative is sort of pre-written and that they had these things.

00:10:11: They have these op eds pretty locked in loaded.

00:10:14: You kind of knew...you could almost anticipate That as soon we knew.

00:10:18: at six p.m.. When We Knew This Was The Reaction Then We KNEW THE COUNTER REACTION Because THIS IS WHERE THEY GO.

00:10:24: Even in days beforehand Some official from police came out.

00:10:29: um, you know a crazy right wing thing of saying well if the left wind and Berlin will turn into an Islamic capital or something.

00:10:36: but You know I think that use-you do see A clear yeah predetermined narrative to kind of say Okay now we've got a problem with anti-Semitism Let's deal with that.

00:10:47: And you know The highest example of that i guess is Friedrich Meatz who immediately the next day said Jewish life Is no longer safe in berlin which?

00:10:58: is an extreme statement to be making.

00:11:00: But I mean, like so...I remember listening the German radio after the Sachsen-Anhalt election a couple weeks ago when the AFD won and some of immediate reaction.

00:11:09: you know after eight

00:11:10: p.m.,

00:11:11: or when results came out on that Sunday night where everybody was really shocked they were talking to police in saying what kind of eventualities are you preparing for?

00:11:20: And then had said After The AFD, the far right party full had won, they said one of the things we're most scared of is a left radical response in the cities and on hold.

00:11:36: So like there is a fear in the mainstream circles of Germany of the Left-of A Radical Left Like that's deeply ingrained fear.

00:11:44: And what I find really scary about?

00:11:46: The media comparing You know now all of sudden this was considered a win Of a radical party right?

00:11:53: Of like a far left Party They are comparing it with the Far Right AFD takes from the mainstream media were about how radical German politics has become.

00:12:02: You have to choose between crazy far right or crazy, far left and that basically what does?

00:12:07: is it makes them the same?

00:12:09: It's kind of terrifying because you have one party talking about.

00:12:15: let's get rid off all immigrants in your one-party saying lets make rent more affordable.

00:12:20: And they're being compared as like these are going destroy Germany.

00:12:25: I think The way that the far right seems to be being kept out of power at the moment is with this idea of the Brand Mao or whatever, the firewall.

00:12:33: And so other political parties of the mainstream gather together and form coalitions in order to exclude... ...the Right from politics.

00:12:43: But I think we do see that the other parties, the CDU but then you know as we've seen also the Greens and SPD over issues that sort-of suit them seem to be making the same argument against The Left.

00:12:57: and I think that it does speak to a kind of lack Of seriousness Not only with the approach To The Left but With The Approach To The Right.

00:13:05: like if you are calling These Two Things The Same then how much Are You Taking Seriously?

00:13:10: The Actually Rising Kind Of Extreme Far Right.

00:13:12: And you know Christian Brinkner, Head Of The Berlin AFD Someone From Her Office Had His

00:13:23: House

00:13:24: apartment search like the day before the election and it was

00:13:27: suspicion of weapons Suspicion

00:13:30: for weapons, but they didn't find weapons.

00:13:31: They found drugs And Nazi memorabilia.

00:13:35: yes his contacts were quoted in the paper is saying he likes going to a flea market.

00:13:40: Yeah He's a collector.

00:13:42: I think she said something like that where she was like oh?

00:13:45: He's just a collector.

00:13:46: yeah

00:13:46: This is what i was gonna say as i don't know anybody with explosives.

00:13:50: Well, he didn't have explosives I don't think.

00:13:52: He just had drugs and not some memorabilia.

00:13:54: Okay but if you're suspected of having explosives it's sort of like that's nine-tenths of the...having explosives.

00:14:05: yeah But i do think this kind of politics exclusion or prohibition saying we are middle so keep everybody out.

00:14:18: But what happens then, if you call that is that you end up managing the decline of this thing.

00:14:24: You're not willing to do fairly lukewarm socialist policies with a rent cap or expropriating some people who are really letting these houses go to waste in many cases over and over again I think.

00:14:38: but it means that... ...you kind of undermine your democracy If you can't have things which you vote for And it strengthens the far right who then seemed, well we're not interested in democracy anyway.

00:14:50: So let us just take over

00:14:53: another maybe one more quick group that would... That is also upset about the election.

00:14:59: Is the SPD?

00:15:00: Ruthie do you want to say anything about the SPD?

00:15:02: like the basics being Stefan Krach You can tell a little bit about him.

00:15:07: interesting candidate they chose.

00:15:10: They also had his house raided by the police in the lead up to the election.

00:15:13: Yeah, they said

00:15:14: you gotta keep your crime straight.

00:15:15: it was different.

00:15:17: Tell us a little bit about that SPD and why there.

00:15:19: so

00:15:20: yeah I mean they were...they've been in position for decades In.

00:15:24: Berlin is sort of The party Of berlin And i think It's natural when things aren't going well To sort of turn on Natural and fairly correct.

00:15:34: just sort of Turn On That Party and say Well okay Things have not gone well and You Been In Charge For A while And they kind of can't get anything.

00:15:43: They couldn't get any thing going for this election, and the guy that pulled in to run stuff on crack was from Hanover... I mean sort-of semi from Berlin also but has been running Hanover a while so he wasn't even really from here i feel like did not help.

00:15:59: then ten days before his home got raided by investigators on suspicion He was taken abribe, accused allegedly taking a bribe for hospital development bid.

00:16:16: Yeah it's interesting because you have to declare when you take money I think over ten thousand and so he is arguing in favor of granting the hospital big to some firm from Hanover Nine thousand nine hundred euros or whatever like.

00:16:34: and Ruth you were disappointed by the corrupt

00:16:36: I was about to say.

00:16:37: I feel it's very SPD.

00:16:38: They can't really even find an exciting way to do crime.

00:16:41: Yeah, I mean they've.

00:16:43: so they actually govern Berlin for thirty seven years in a row.

00:16:47: in Berlin You know this is like a party of the unions Party Of The Workers.

00:16:52: You're talking about a string of bad SBD politicians and leaders nationally locally.

00:16:58: So actually former Berlin mayor, Franziska Giffey lost her local seat in Rudo, Southern Oikon to the CDU And they don't have a lot to cling on too.

00:17:11: right now They are in fourth place nationally They pulling it like just above ten percent.

00:17:19: They're being rocked by their position in the ruling coalition of Germany, where they are part of these reform proposals that everybody hates.

00:17:29: I mean German politics is a bit weird in that you often have this whatever grand coalitions with two major parties teaming up together to do some kind of...to run it together and i think having been there sort much too comfortable to go along with the CDU for a long time and sort of be in coalitions, which are then responsible for austerity or... The only things that they seemed really able to do was carve out little deals for the car unions.

00:17:59: So it seems like the party's slightly outlived its voter base in some kind of way.

00:18:06: Well you were saying what did I have to cling onto?

00:18:09: And Clung to.

00:18:12: that stood out to me at least is being against the expropriation.

00:18:16: So they're not really for anything.

00:18:18: That would represent any kind of change.

00:18:20: And you were talking about it earlier like why these parties?

00:18:24: Why are they saying well, you can't have this thing?

00:18:26: You voted four We're just gonna stand in a way I kinda don't know their answer to that Like why cling so hard To what your against Rather than sort join the team and say okay we'll deliver what they voted for.

00:18:42: There is also, you know the same day as the Berlin election.

00:18:45: there was an election in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and AFD cleaned up their also.

00:18:51: but actually the SPD came in second surprisingly and partially because their leader there is a woman called Manuela Schwestich And she's really great.

00:19:02: She found a way to...she basically through the national SPD policy All the reform stuff they're talking about, we're not going to do that.

00:19:11: We're gonna make Kitas free and public transportation-free.

00:19:14: We are gonna fight against their retirement A checks... In other words fighting our own parties proposals right?

00:19:21: And then she started wearing all red and have these events with uh..all red backgrounds.

00:19:29: but it is interesting like also points you've made Peter like She's countered the AFD Not by saying screw them But proposing specific Points and being like here's how we're gonna get better.

00:19:40: She did it by putting her own party.

00:19:42: This

00:19:42: is what I'm saying.

00:19:42: They're not clinging to anything in Berlin other than opposition.

00:19:46: no, I mean And you know the youth wing of The Party has voted for the expropriation referendum in favor of passing that.

00:19:53: so It's like they do seem that the party Has suffered from taking a line which is not only against its sort of voter base But also against his own members and some whatever.

00:20:03: So it does seem as sort of slightly um, politically sort of kamikaze move.

00:20:08: Yeah so okay we've talked about a lot of different but-we haven't talked about the greens being upset because they're not upset.

00:20:13: They're fine working with Linka?

00:20:15: They are fine NOT working with Alinka?

00:20:17: Well again like leader on the federal level says that there said that slightly racist thing or actually I would say racist thing about not working with anti-Semites from Neukölln, but it does seem like the Berlin... The Berlin Green which is left of the Federal Party.

00:20:33: Is the most in favour of doing a coalition?

00:20:38: But yes I mean both the Greens and the SPD have already made statements or The reporting around it has indicated that they're worried about anti-Semitism on the left, and that would be something that they'd want to make a clear position or demand from them as a condition of coalition talks.

00:21:00: The Greens have your millennial boss vibe with me.

00:21:06: You know like you kind of have the boss who's denying you vacation but is also sort of chummy.

00:21:14: They did also lose some established districts in Friedrichstein-Kreuzberg that they've held forever.

00:21:22: So all of these, even the sort stereotypical Kreuzberg green voter kind of district you can imagine like with organic food and their big bike carrier thing now voting for Delinke.

00:21:39: Yeah, I mean so what okay?

00:21:41: So we've talked about why people are upset.

00:21:42: We talk about the party's upset but like let's just real quick maybe review Why do you think actually one and why People Are so You know online so feeling so much energy you said at The Party there was this huge you Know

00:21:57: yeah It's a good point.

00:21:59: i mean we shouldn't Let the sort of um the backlash And kind of depressing political reaction knock us off course Of What Was Like A massive a Massive Victory for the Left.

00:22:09: I think some of the most encouraging things are those, you see that they're attracting huge numbers of young people.

00:22:17: non-voters and people struggling economically voted overwhelmingly for Ninka.

00:22:23: And especially non-Voters who struggle economically are places where their AFD has been making major inroads.

00:22:31: so it does seem to indicate there's hope.

00:22:37: progressive leftist or populist-leftist movement even, is maybe a way to combat this kind of rising far right which we see sweeping German politics.

00:22:52: Why do you think they link one actually?

00:22:54: How would explain it somebody new in Berlin politics?

00:22:58: Oh that's good question.

00:23:00: I mean running on an affordability platform.

00:23:05: Easy is a sort of a layup like it's not even.

00:23:08: It's not a hollow thing and it Is quite easy to appeal the people that way.

00:23:12: because it's true.

00:23:14: I also think, i know That ala feralp was not The only technically the only female lead candidate.

00:23:21: the afd Also ran a woman But when you ask me that question part Of it is her.

00:23:27: Yeah And say more about her because she Was kind of unknown.

00:23:31: why would She so popular?

00:23:32: I Think it's very appealing to have the prospect of a young woman from a migration background, of Turkish parentage who has history and activism.

00:23:43: Who is quite educated?

00:23:44: Who speaks multiple

00:23:45: languages?".

00:23:47: The idea that as mayor it's quite appealing I think when the rest options kind look like copy-paste white guy.

00:23:58: There was foreshadowing for Berlin electoral success with federal elections where There was a massive move to the right nationally, but Berlin Was one of the only places where they left really made major inroads and They did a huge kind of door-knocking campaign.

00:24:16: And then also I think that you know The key things on the doorstep were stuff like yeah Like affordability.

00:24:21: The price of groceries etc.. like housing and Clean streets.

00:24:26: and you know Ferret Koshak Did a big campaign about why do streets in Charlottenburg get cleaned twice as often, and so on.

00:24:35: So I think that these really like going to people knocking on their doors.

00:24:43: dealing with very practical concerns has been a key to their electoral success And i think it's the ground of things taking a clear position over Gaza.

00:24:57: Reason that people have been enthusiastic about them, but I don't think it's anything like the top reason That People have Enthusiastic About Them.

00:25:02: i Think That The Material Things of These Like Very?

00:25:05: Like Stuff Going on in Your Neighborhood It Has Been An Overwhelming Reason for Their Success.

00:25:09: yeah

00:25:10: okay i did not Pull Numbers On This But i know There was The Big Majority Of New Voters as the Younger People the Sixteen and Seventeen Year Olds.

00:25:19: But there were also A lot of People like National or um.

00:25:22: There'S Also a big chunk of new voters people who've gotten German citizenship in the last few years, since they changed their rules on dual citizenship.

00:25:31: And so I think there's a little bit of like...I know that when we posted about the election there were people in our comment saying this is where my first vote and Germany went?

00:25:40: This isn't the first election or whether it has been true but i think it did reach new thresholds.

00:25:45: So I think some ways this was a course correction because care about what happens in the city and can't vote.

00:25:53: And if you decrease that a little bit, um... That does change things.

00:25:58: Yeah!

00:25:59: Maybe this isn't the biggest thing but I do think we probably see just sort of diminishing power on certain strands of German memory—that is anti-communism.

00:26:15: You know?

00:26:17: In the media aftermath It grew up with a merging of two parties, one was the PDS which is successor to the SED, East German Socialist Party.

00:26:28: As soon as they do well lots of mainstream liberal conservative media say it's their former SED party or whatever and try scare people off with anti-communism.

00:26:42: look that socialists are back.

00:26:45: terrifying things.

00:26:46: And I just think that particular strain of German memory and the German sort of scare tactics in a way is perhaps just diminishing power as new generation starts to vote?

00:27:00: Yeah, it's also important like you mentioned how Aleph Alp is daughter of immigrants to Germany of Gastarbiter this What will Berlin look like?

00:27:13: I think Kai Wigner's election was like, Berlin is Spandau.

00:27:16: That is what Berlin is!

00:27:18: We are Spandauer we support Herta... ...we drive our cars and we don't give a f about temple off of it

00:27:24: You know?

00:27:24: I mean that was the other thing.

00:27:25: Like you know The CDU kept trying to find these different things To do this sort of Look how unreasonable and crazy.

00:27:34: they left out At first one before anti-Semitism or before expropriation this Berliner Autofrei initiative and they were kind of like, They're coming for our cars.

00:27:44: But you know so the left also didn't fall into various of these sort of traps along the way.

00:27:49: So I think it's really interesting.

00:27:49: Also when you look at the response At least online And the editorials that have all come out You Know how important in How meaningful It is not only to Have a woman who could be mayor but also Like somebody A daughter Of this generation of immigrants?

00:28:01: Who can speak Turkish?

00:28:03: Whose grandparents Were Not Nazis Or We are not white Germans you know, who can represent the city of Berlin like Keivinger can't speak English.

00:28:12: You're supposed to represent Berlin internationally.

00:28:15: uh he doesn't.

00:28:16: so if we're talking about like Berlin a City Of The Future... Berlin is a place where people are excited to live and we're gonna be an interesting space for whatever-a diverse space of humans that come from all over the world.

00:28:28: would it be interesting?

00:28:28: Like this as mayor I think people could really be excited about Who also has bona fides in activism and law or feel like any of the other candidates and I think that's a positive thing.

00:28:41: Yeah, i was gonna say...I don't want to reduce politics to vibes but I do think when you're a voter..you can kind of clock who has momentum in juice and charisma?

00:28:51: yeah And thats alot of it even though Thats really not the most important thing.

00:28:56: There have been plenty leading politicians without no discernable juice or charisma.

00:29:01: for me That seem well enough.

00:29:04: Okay, we should name this because one of the major controversies

00:29:30: But he, so it was Issa Remo who is the head of the Remo clan family.

00:29:42: And he showed up at The Neukölln Watch Party.

00:29:46: It wasn't invited but kind you could register for and go to.

00:29:51: There's a journalist in the crowd that spotted him pretty quickly.

00:29:55: He was on a podcast.

00:29:56: He spotted them pretty quick pointed out and they removed him.

00:30:02: And so the party has said, you know we didn't invite him he showed up We removed him.

00:30:07: It has since come out that He Has been during The campaign That his son was sort of texting with Farrot Koschek.

00:30:15: Yeah

00:30:16: who wasn't there at the time?

00:30:18: When this Was happening I think

00:30:19: yeah They were not At the same Party.

00:30:21: but So the media's Been trying to say well he was sort Of connected To the party or to party members Um...and kind of Trying to make something Out of that.

00:30:30: And I think the party is sort of correct to say, listen he showed up then we had him leave.

00:30:36: But what's more interesting for me some conservative media has been using it as a way just to tear supporters at The Delinca Party...

00:30:46: Well rather they were saying because actually there was another controversial figure there, kind of Palestinian activist called Ibrahim who got connection with PFLP not Hamas or whatever but like And

00:31:00: they were photographed together,

00:31:02: I think.

00:31:03: Well, Abraham was photographed with Ferrat later when Ferrat went to the Neukern watch party and Ferrat wasn't there when Remo was there but Remo is also photographed by other guys.

00:31:14: so then it allowed some elements of the German press do headlines like Klannbos, Hamas supporter, Neukerne politician all together which was catnip them.

00:31:27: Um, and in fairness I guess the Remo crime family is very fun to read about.

00:31:33: Well what are they known for?

00:31:35: In like Berlin news What have they gotten headlines for?

00:31:38: i think The main thing Is this twenty eighteen museum heist where They stole This giant gold coin.

00:31:45: oh that was them.

00:31:46: That Was Them.

00:31:46: There's Been Some Convictions Like They Didn't Get Everybody That Was Involved Those These two brothers in the clan, and then I think one of their cousins.

00:31:54: And they roped-in... They kinda had a guy at the museum, The Security Guard who helped them.

00:32:00: That was in Dresden right?

00:32:01: No that wasn't

00:32:01: here!

00:32:01: That's different ones.

00:32:02: There were two.

00:32:03: I remember it very clearly because he interrupted my commute to work that day.

00:32:06: Well, the

00:32:08: Dresdner was the big egg

00:32:12: with his gen.

00:32:13: This one is a gold coin heist.

00:32:14: get your heists straight Ben.

00:32:20: They like sort of jumped out of the train and walked on the tracks at Hakeshamacht, And then got into the museum through an open window.

00:32:27: And they had a skateboard in wheelbarrow.

00:32:30: It's giant Canadian gold coin with a big face of Elizabeth II on it You know?

00:32:36: Looked like a big old pound coin which was... interesting to me, but no one else.

00:32:42: But yeah impressive heists.

00:32:45: So what's the official editorial stance on the Remo Heist?

00:32:48: Are we pro-heists?

00:32:51: I think they're generally pro this sort of heist ingenuity.

00:32:55: I would say We are amused by heists and anti violence.

00:33:02: I think that this whole story is a sort of flash in the pan and kind of racially inflected, little bit of outrage.

00:33:12: We

00:33:12: might need to do a clan heist deep dive explainer thing for next summer break or winter break something our audience really give us as much space it needs.

00:33:26: we've talked about election.

00:33:28: i think good length.

00:33:30: maybe just wrap up episode like what's one keeping an eye on in the next couple weeks.

00:33:36: What do you think is going to develop?

00:33:39: There's been some interesting articles about whether The Linka should actually govern or stay in opposition.

00:33:46: Some people have talked about how To maybe learn from Omdani, from that transition team if they do take power How they can best implement because there has a lot of accusations.

00:33:55: They won election through promising Heaven and Earth And will never deliver.

00:34:01: What are you keeping an eye on either about Delinca or the media?

00:34:06: Or The city's reaction there in general next couple weeks.

00:34:10: I mean, i think that thing to keep it on is mainly just a coalition talks.

00:34:13: There're lots of different issues and certainly here again from the Deutsche Wun and Eignen because they have a kind of fully costed plan and like white paper on policy.

00:34:29: They wrote the law themselves in order to pass that, so there's been lot work going into it.

00:34:35: I would want see how this is implemented.

00:34:42: each party will be drawing up its own red lines and looking out, yeah just how all of that shakes up.

00:34:51: And kind with the hope it's around at least issues of substance and not like what I think a lot is so far which has sort of hysterical scare mongering about antisemitism... Which

00:35:10: we talked earlier.

00:35:11: some this stuff dies down in the next week, but I do think...I guess what i'm watching out for is as The Coalition talks go through if it remains pretty straightforward and they are ironing things out kind of in a way that people expect them to.

00:35:29: I think they're gonna have to keep trying make something out of nothing, and it'll be entertaining to watch that happen.

00:35:48: As someone who followed Corbin as the ongoing making-something-out-of-nothing over a leftist potential government seems depressing?

00:36:00: Yeah!

00:36:02: Maybe its depressing but i can see them... What her what's her apartment or where she eating for dinner?

00:36:12: and they end.

00:36:13: I think that we're gonna deal with some Some sort of nonsense in that direction, but maybe it doesn't have very positive prediction.

00:36:20: That's okay.

00:36:21: Um

00:36:22: i'm definitely watching frijek mats at the national level because The cdu and spd are just getting hammered in all these state elections And its.

00:36:30: It's kind of an interesting cool thing about german politics that these state election become kind of barometers that do affect national politics and the party in how much momentum they have, what's going on.

00:36:41: And it seems like a lot of parties are gonna be having kind of emergency talks next week because there is even talk about Meritz maybe stepping down.

00:36:46: he keeps saying that he isn't not going to but if this keep going on as well then he will eventually get too hurt.

00:36:56: Maybe in best case it would lead to How To Beat The Far Right?

00:37:00: Like an example addressing it frontally Proposing actual new ideas not only saying the AFD is crazy, but also saying hey here's some ideas I have.

00:37:10: So that's what i'll be keeping on it.

00:37:11: But I think that wraps up the election Episode.

00:37:15: thanks so much for listening.

00:37:16: we've been trying to do a subscriber campaign.

00:37:20: We've already passed our first goal which was to get two hundred subscribers?

00:37:24: So we've achieved and were super grateful for that.

00:37:27: It means that we can pay everything cover all of our expenses each month.

00:37:33: What we'd really like to do is get to five hundred in order or as close to five-hundred as possible, In order to be able to grow raise rates and even start pay ourselves for this work.

00:37:47: Yeah so you can that at heisberlinne.com.

00:37:49: Thanks again so much sharing all of these.

00:37:51: Pass it on!

00:37:53: I'm Ben Schumann Stoller.

00:37:54: thanks again Peter Matthews and Ruthie Weissman for joining today will back into weeks And see ya then.